Curse

upier · Jul 05, 2009, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Yeah, if you want Carpal.

Also, that's not even true. For N/A, for example, you can put off killing your target for more MoP goodness. Also you're assuming heroes are wasting your time when they're not discording. No. They are MMing, healing, protting, etc, which is sweet because having a huge-ass minion army while simultaneously not dying owns your face.

Seems like you're not only not playing an AP caller, doing at least 250 damage per target, 450 if you bother to EVAS, but also not calling your target. News flash: You're doing it very wrong, which is probably why you think discord sucks. The fact that you havent' figured this out yet, is only a testament to human ingenuity.

Micro-ing discord is just too powerful, and takes away from the other main functions of the discorders (building a huge ass minion army) which is anti-awesome.

If your heroes are doing anything else other than using Disco, that costs time. Sure, what they are doing isn't useless, BUT it also means that all of a sudden your math is off.
Finish Him has an effect if the guy is under 50%.
If your guys aren't hitting Disco - that means you don't get the guy under 50% (at least not as fast as you make it sound) and that means you AREN'T doing 250 damage in 1.5 secs.

You want the best effect?
You'll micro Disco.
You think that's too much work or isn't needed?
I guess the same argument can be used to justify not running an AP caller.

AtomicMew · Jul 05, 2009, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If your heroes are doing anything else other than using Disco, that costs time. Sure, what they are doing isn't useless, BUT it also means that all of a sudden your math is off.
Finish Him has an effect if the guy is under 50%.
If your guys aren't hitting Disco - that means you don't get the guy under 50% (at least not as fast as you make it sound) and that means you AREN'T doing 250 damage in 1.5 secs.

After the first few targets, most targets will already be under 50% after AP + YMLAD, so there is no wait. For the first few targets, or if there is a wait, you just use up time by casting EVAS or any number of your other 4 skills. Note that using EVAS or your other four skills is not equivalent to twiddling your thumbs or being sub-par. For example, A/Rt, cast splinter if there's downtime - you just did 160 AoE.

Quote:

You want the best effect?
You'll micro Disco.

You think that's too much work or isn't needed?

I think it is not only not needed but also not strictly better.

Quote:

I guess the same argument can be used to justify not running an AP caller.

Also, you're running a very slippery slope. Take your reasoning even further, and you can use the argument to justify not playing guild wars at all. I mean, why put in effort when it's just a game.

Kendel · Jul 05, 2009, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

It won't change anything, people will just move onto the next overpowered PvE hero build. Why make stuff harder for yourself when it doesn't need to be?

Yes its such a shame the words 'fun' and 'challenge' are almost completely unknown on this forum. Only 'speed' and 'profit' matter.

Also i'm sure a meleer can handle it, its really not hard to inflict a condition and hex with Asuran Scan around, although wtf do YOU need to inflict a hex for? You've got 3 necros, how hard can it be to bring something spammable or with a very large AoE on them? Pretty sure a Crit Scythe Sin would have no problems inflicting DW/Bleeding on a target and an optional Asuran scan. Oh and to the cretin who said earlier that you need to be in melee range... big whoop, once your in melee range of 1 thing it doesn't take 3 seconds to reach the next.

Crassus Praetor · Jul 05, 2009, 09:42 AM // 09:42

"Gole does 0 to FH and YMLAD."

"GoLE doesn't effect shouts fyi, l2p."

This defies belief how you can argue against someone with their own argument.

AP Caller is a way of meeting the conditions of Discord, it really
shouldn't matter if another build can complete something 0.27 seconds
quicker and certainly shouldn't warrant 4 pages of mindless arguments
with no outcome.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 05, 2009, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

Yes its such a shame the words 'fun' and 'challenge' are almost completely unknown on this forum. Only 'speed' and 'profit' matter.

If I want challenge (not nessecarily fun in some cases) I'll play with humans.

At the end of the day who cares how someone else wants to play the game they paid for? If they're hero and henching it doesn't affect you in the slightest other than leaving you with one less player to game with. Going on your mentality that's not nessecarily a bad thing for you right? So it's a win win situation in both cases.

Improvavel · Jul 05, 2009, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

..... GoLE doesn't effect shouts fyi, l2p.

You cast GoLE before starting your chain, AP and EVAS become free and you dont lose the q-knock effect.

And yes I say that AP caller has bigger burst damage, that would true.

GolE does 0 to shouts - 0 means nothing. Read skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crassus Praetor

AP Caller is a way of meeting the conditions of Discord, it really
shouldn't matter if another build can complete something 0.27 seconds
quicker and certainly shouldn't warrant 4 pages of mindless arguments
with no outcome.

The objective was to stomp the myth that you can't uses discord necros with physicals or that isn't effective.

Truth is the necro trio is pretty much self reliant, regardless of your main.

I guess that is why some players dislike it.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 05, 2009, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Enchantment reliant squi ... wait , are you on crack ? a MS/DB sin reliant on ench ? soz dude , you failed. And what about your GOD Ap Caller ? 1 stupid interrupt and you are down 45sec and please , PLEASE dont bring that sht of "AP casts 3/4 sec and is not likely to be interrupted" at HM because ppl will laugh at you.

Critical Agility (and there's no valid reason to not run this unless you're using cons) is an enchantment. You're reliant on this for extra armour and a IAS.

AP being interrupted is not really a problem once you have the experience of knowing what to watch out for. This can easily be solved by not being a bad player.

Quote:

Thats a pure lie , casting or doing e-management slows your chain and your speed so for god sake dont say you can do it all and be full of energy every 4 secs or so. Do you really though that no one noticed that you are shortening your full chain times for like a 20-40% ?

There are several useful utility skills in the Mesmer line that allow you to replenish your energy in under a second. One second is not a big deal, neither is their recharge when fueled by AP.

Considering AP and EVAS only take like 2 seconds to cast (remember the other skills are shouts and activate instantly with no aftercast) that leaves you a whole 2 seconds out of the 4 seconds to cast energy management skills, if you want to work along that theorycraft.

For the record I find energy management rarely needed with an Assassin AP caller, just use a high energy set should you need that little bit extra towards the end of combat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

GolE does 0 to shouts - 0 means nothing. Read skills.

It makes EVAS free. EVAS is a spell. That's -10 energy off your chain making your 35 energy chain now cost 25 energy at the cost of 1 second.

Tenebrae · Jul 05, 2009, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Critical Agility (and there's no valid reason to not run this unless you're using cons) is an enchantment. You're reliant on this for extra armour and a IAS.

No and no. The BUILD is not reliant on enchantments and THE BUILD does work with it ,and slightly slower without it and without that extra armor . A Crit Scythe Sin IS the one Ench reliant , without em he is not a Crit Scythe sin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

AP being interrupted is not really a problem once you have the experience of knowing what to watch out for. This can easily be solved by not being a bad player.

Oh no no, dont play that "game conditions are like that because i want to" , i can say the same to you. If you are not a bad player, CA will never be removed. There are more insane HM interrupters out there than Ench removers that "by fate" will "always" target you and not Dnova minions that are closer to him and another ench player bla bla.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

There are several useful utility skills in the Mesmer line that allow you to replenish your energy in under a second. One second is not a big deal, neither is their recharge when fueled by AP.

Most of them need a condition to met ( interrupt something ) or are a little slow ( like energy tap ) so no , it does slow the chain. Never said it was a big deal but it does slow the chain. Period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Considering AP and EVAS only take like 2 seconds to cast (remember the other skills are shouts and activate instantly with no aftercast) that leaves you a whole 2 seconds out of the 4 seconds to cast energy management skills, if you want to work along that theorycraft.

Read Improvavel , if you want to go on theory , you are saying ( or mister "i do my full AP chain in 1.5 sec" traversc ) that you ALWAYS get the mob on 50% or lower in 1.5 or 2 secs and mate that is just simply not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

For the record I find energy management rarely needed with an Assassin AP caller, just use a high energy set should you need that little bit extra towards the end of combat.

Yeah and proper timing and waiting for using skills at proper time , not full APchain all skills every 3 sec like traversc wants us to believe . LoL @ that even he ignores someone that tells the truth he dont wanna read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

It makes EVAS free. EVAS is a spell. That's -10 energy off your chain making your 35 energy chain now cost 25 energy at the cost of 1 second.

You are right , but as i said before its rather slow the chain and downtimes or sacrifice speed. Its not against you , is just that im against the fake maths that avoid counting downtimes .... its just like i say "i have 190 melee DPS for real because i have it on MoD" and avoid counting the second switching targets in a long battle , its simply not true.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 05, 2009, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

No and no. The BUILD is not reliant on enchantments and THE BUILD does work with it ,and slightly slower without it and without that extra armor . A Crit Scythe Sin IS the one Ench reliant , without em he is not a Crit Scythe sin.

Of course it's reliant on it's enchantment if you want it to be efficient. You'll lack armour and your IAS meaning you'll take more damage, and deal less. Golden Fox would also then be blockable, and Golden Fang wouldnt fulfill the requirement to deal its condition (assumption based on the most common skills on MS/DB).

Quote:

Oh no no, dont play that "game conditions are like that because i want to" , i can say the same to you. If you are not a bad player, CA will never be removed. There are more insane HM interrupters out there than Ench removers that "by fate" will "always" target you and not Dnova minions that are closer to him and another ench player bla bla.

I can play that, because that is how it is. Both styles have their weaknesses. Being a good player and knowing how to combat stuff that aims to exploit those weaknesses is key to making either style work efficiently, and it's quite possible to do that with both.

Quote:

Most of them need a condition to met ( interrupt something ) or are a little slow ( like energy tap ) so no , it does slow the chain. Never said it was a big deal but it does slow the chain. Period.

How hard are those conditions to meet on Hard mode against predictable AI? Use what works best for the area ahead of you. It doesn't really slow you down if you use it at the right times. As for Energy Tap, eww.

Quote:

Read Improvavel , if you want to go on theory , you are saying ( or mister "i do my full AP chain in 1.5 sec" traversc ) that you ALWAYS get the mob on 50% or lower in 1.5 or 2 secs and mate that is just simply not true.

I'm not the one saying it, nothing more needs to be said here. Simply stating the fact that once you have cast EVAS you have plenty of time to cast any energy management you need really.

Quote:

Yeah and proper timing and waiting for using skills at proper time , not full APchain all skills every 3 sec like traversc wants us to believe . LoL @ that even he ignores someone that tells the truth he dont wanna read.

Not really relevant to me.

Quote:

You are right , but as i said before its rather slow the chain and downtimes or sacrifice speed.

Not really, you can cast it as you use Finish Him (Seems Finish Him is a shout you can do both at the same time). Timing is crucial though. In any case one second is not a big deal.

Quote:

Its not against you , is just that im against the fake maths that avoid counting downtimes .... its just like i say "i have 190 melee DPS for real because i have it on MoD" and avoid counting the second switching targets in a long battle , its simply not true.

I try to steer away from mathes (it's far from my strongest point), however you have that extra second to target switch with both styles, the only difference being with the melee they still have to move to the target, while the AP caller with good positioning can just get on with it. Realisitcally speed wise both are about the same, just the AP caller offers a quicker spike damage assist (as I've said before) along with utility, while physicals offer more damage over time.

I find prioritising much easier with an AP caller though as you're sitting back a little to get a better view of things, and not worrying about stuff whacking you as much.

Again it comes down to player preference and playing style, nothing more.

upier · Jul 05, 2009, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

After the first few targets, most targets will already be under 50% after AP + YMLAD, so there is no wait. For the first few targets, or if there is a wait, you just use up time by casting EVAS or any number of your other 4 skills. Note that using EVAS or your other four skills is not equivalent to twiddling your thumbs or being sub-par. For example, A/Rt, cast splinter if there's downtime - you just did 160 AoE.

I think it is not only not needed but also not strictly better.

Also, you're running a very slippery slope. Take your reasoning even further, and you can use the argument to justify not playing guild wars at all. I mean, why put in effort when it's just a game.

Just posting one of your first posts again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

No it is faster. The very fact that MS/DB is melee, and the fact that it takes ~1-2 seconds to even get into melee range, means it is slower.

There is no comparison. An AP caller can do ~250 damage in 1.5 seconds with norn shouts. EVAS does ~200 damage costing you 1.75 seconds and knocklocks.

On the other hand, assuming completely ideal conditions (i.e., everything shadow steps to you in melee range), MS/DB takes 1.75 seconds to do ~100 damage (asura scan + first hit)... and doesn't even prime for discord (condition req).

Those two posts sound a BIT different.

If you want to meet your "1.5 sec" time, you can't afford to waste time by casting something else. AP is 0.75 secs. You activate YMLD at the same time. Disco is a 1 sec cast. Which means you are currently at 1.75. IF you activate FH! at EXACTLY the moment that Disco hits that should also be the end time. You are currently already over your 1.5 secs. Now if your guys are casting something else the moment that you apply the condition and hex (or are recovering from the aftercast) - you are even further away from what you are trying to sell.
Unless of course you micro it and pretty much start casting Disco the moment you start casting AP/YMLD!

If you even want to dream of the times you are listing here - you'll micro it.
Otherwise stop throwing out crap such as 1.5 secs to do 250 damage and acting as if the "~1-2 seconds to even get into melee range" even plays a role.

Improvavel · Jul 05, 2009, 11:38 AM // 11:38

[QUOTE=Unreal Havoc;4726280
It makes EVAS free. EVAS is a spell. That's -10 energy off your chain making your 35 energy chain now cost 25 energy at the cost of 1 second.[/QUOTE]

Are you reading my posts? I said that.

What you quoted was a response to a someone else.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 05, 2009, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Are you reading my posts? I said that.

What you quoted was a response to a someone else.

Here is what Super Igor said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

..... GoLE doesn't effect shouts fyi, l2p.

You cast GoLE before starting your chain, AP and EVAS become free and you dont lose the q-knock effect.

And yes I say that AP caller has bigger burst damage, that would true.

Here was your response.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

GolE does 0 to shouts - 0 means nothing. Read skills.

So for your information yes I am reading your posts. I was highlighting the fact that Glyph of Lesser Energy wasn't for shouts, which Igor had already pointed out to you anyway. Your last comment makes it look like you seem to think that others, or yourself, thought the glyph was for the shouts. If you mean something else by it then you should make it more clear because it just doesn't make sense any other way to me.

I was just simply making it clear exactly what it is for.

Super Igor · Jul 05, 2009, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

Yes its such a shame the words 'fun' and 'challenge' are almost completely unknown on this forum. Only 'speed' and 'profit' matter.

Also i'm sure a meleer can handle it, its really not hard to inflict a condition and hex with Asuran Scan around, although wtf do YOU need to inflict a hex for? You've got 3 necros, how hard can it be to bring something spammable or with a very large AoE on them? Pretty sure a Crit Scythe Sin would have no problems inflicting DW/Bleeding on a target and an optional Asuran scan. Oh and to the cretin who said earlier that you need to be in melee range... big whoop, once your in melee range of 1 thing it doesn't take 3 seconds to reach the next.

Because taking it yourself saves time and a skill slot on your heroes?

Also, speed and profit = fun to me and no i wont run an inferior build just for the sake of making my life harder, I'm not a perv.

Improvavel · Jul 05, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Here is what Super Igor said.
So for your information yes I am reading your posts. I was highlighting the fact that Glyph of Lesser Energy wasn't for shouts, which Igor had already pointed out to you anyway. Your last comment makes it look like you seem to think that others thought the glyph was for the shouts. If you mean something else by it then you should make it more clear because it just doesn't make sense any other way to me.

I was just simply making it clear exactly what it is for.

No - it didn't start like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ME
Gole does 0 to FH and YMLAD. You could use gole before EVAS and whatever hex but you are adding 1 sec to your chain.

Then

Quote:

Quote
Originally Posted by Super Igor
..... GoLE doesn't effect shouts fyi, l2p.

So I say Gole doesn't affect FH and YMLAD. Then my logic and my game ability is contested because GoLE does't affect shouts?

Unreal Havoc · Jul 05, 2009, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

No - it didn't start like that.

So it started like this then? I removed the irrelevant stuff from the quotes taken from the previous page.

Igors post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

For a sin, you have 9 profs to chose from, I for example use Ele secondary with GoLE for extra energy management, works wonders, I never have a slight bit of energy problem.

Your reply:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Gole does 0 to FH and YMLAD. You could use gole before EVAS and whatever hex but you are adding 1 sec to your chain.

Igor clearly never mentions using Glyph of Lesser Energy for shouts. So it makes no sense as to why you say it doesn't affect shouts, anyone with half a brain already knows this.

This has nothing to do with your game ability, just trying to understand what the hell you're going on about (some of us like to make an effort to understand others even if it doesn't seem that way).

Tenebrae · Jul 05, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Of course it's reliant on it's enchantment if you want it to be efficient. You'll lack armour and your IAS meaning you'll take more damage, and deal less. Golden Fox would also then be blockable, and Golden Fang wouldnt fulfill the requirement to deal its condition (assumption based on the most common skills on MS/DB).

DB isnt going to recharge faster with 33% ias , when you get to that point , real effects are like 15-20% IAS. Still is not reliant , works better to get DW and an unblockable first but 90% of the times those arent needed and even more with a Discord setup ... just asura scan +jagged will trigger it for exmp. Dont get confused with efficient and MORE efficient , with or without ench , that build works efficiently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

I can play that, because that is how it is. Both styles have their weaknesses. Being a good player and knowing how to combat stuff that aims to exploit those weaknesses is key to making either style work efficiently, and it's quite possible to do that with both.

Thats what we are trying to say but that not what you said before ( yeah , saw your post before your edit ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

How hard are those conditions to meet on Hard mode against predictable AI? Use what works best for the area ahead of you. It doesn't really slow you down if you use it at the right times. As for Energy Tap, eww.

Its easy to say "several useful utility skills in the Mesmer line that allow you to replenish your energy in under a second." but they are hard because as i told ya they have conditions to met. Have fun with leech sig on a melee or trying to power drain a HM mob spell with INSANE casting speed ... little lag and you are done. No more theorycraft and "general" speak please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

I'm not the one saying it, nothing more needs to be said here. Simply stating the fact that once you have cast EVAS you have plenty of time to cast any energy management you need really.

Ofc , im not saying the opposite but there goes more time and chain speed goes down. As i told ya , is not about you , its about the other guy that kills faster than superman , all in 1.5-3 sec and repeat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Not really, you can cast it as you use Finish Him (Seems Finish Him is a shout you can do both at the same time). Timing is crucial though. In any case one second is not a big deal.

No , not a big deal but again , read above and no , is not 1 sec ALWAYS , maybe half of the times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Realisitcally speed wise both are about the same, just the AP caller offers a quicker spike damage assist (as I've said before) along with utility, while physicals offer more damage over time.

Welcome to the club , +DoT also rox but there are dumb ppl saying the oposite ( like Super Troll ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

I find prioritising much easier with an AP caller though as you're sitting back a little to get a better view of things, and not worrying about stuff whacking you as much.

Thats the point of Discordway with an AP caller , its a button smasher and requires almost 0 skill but thats not a reason to say that a skilled melee can DoT and get same efficiency unlike other ppl say ( not you ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Again it comes down to player preference and playing style, nothing more.

Official member

Super Igor · Jul 05, 2009, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

DB isnt going to recharge faster with 33% ias , when you get to that point , real effects are like 15-20% IAS. Still is not reliant , works better to get DW and an unblockable first but 90% of the times those arent needed and even more with a Discord setup ... just asura scan +jagged will trigger it for exmp. Dont get confused with efficient and MORE efficient , with or without ench , that build works efficiently.

So you basically trying to say that people shouldnt run IAS with MS/DB?

What about faster skill activations, faster hex trigger, faster Slinter?

Jagged Strike?!

Unreal Havoc · Jul 05, 2009, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

DB isnt going to recharge faster with 33% ias , when you get to that point , real effects are like 15-20% IAS. Still is not reliant , works better to get DW and an unblockable first but 90% of the times those arent needed and even more with a Discord setup ... just asura scan +jagged will trigger it for exmp. Dont get confused with efficient and MORE efficient , with or without ench , that build works efficiently.

How is it efficient when it works slower than with a IAS? Jagged and Asuran Scan can fulfill the requirement for Discord to trigger, but it is less damage for the MS/DB to start with meaning you have to do more work on the far end of your chain which takes you longer to get to without an IAS. Not to mention I don't need to physically hit my target first to trigger Discord.

It works but nowhere near as efficiently as an AP caller when you think about the amount of quick spike damage an AP caller does to start with while fueling Discord with a hex, damage, snare, and KD lock. It takes literally just one second to cast AP and "YMLaD!" providing you're in shout range (good positioning, something I covered previously).

Physically MS/DB, or any other physical build for that matter, can fuel Discord, thats not really a dispute as a monkey should understand anyone can lay a condition and hex on a target, but doing it as efficiently, especially when foes are nearing very low health is a different story. Especially seems MS/DB has to restart its chain, or pack other skills to compensate when switching targets.

With the style you're describing you're packing at least 5 skills, 6 if you include your IAS, AP caller can blow stuff up with just 4 giving better bar compression, and hence better efficiency.

There are counters to everything, but the point is the AP caller takes most of this and tells them to shove it as it blows stuff up.

Quote:

Thats what we are trying to say but that not what you said before ( yeah , saw your post before your edit ).

Edit or not my principle is still the same.

Quote:

Its easy to say "several useful utility skills in the Mesmer line that allow you to replenish your energy in under a second." but they are hard because as i told ya they have conditions to met. Have fun with leech sig on a melee or trying to power drain a HM mob spell with INSANE casting speed ... little lag and you are done. No more theorycraft and "general" speak please.

Yet it is just an example. Stop claiming theorycraft on stuff that is tried and tested. Last but not least Mesmer is not the only proffession that has energy management, it was a simple point that you can spec into many different proffessions for energy, and with the right planning for the area ahead you can pack yourself some utility too.

Just because something may be hard to use that doesn't mean it cannot be efective in the right hands, or the right area. This is where versatility comes into play.

Quote:

Ofc , im not saying the opposite but there goes more time and chain speed goes down. As i told ya , is not about you , its about the other guy that kills faster than superman , all in 1.5-3 sec and repeat.

Seriously, take it up with him.

Quote:

No , not a big deal but again , read above and no , is not 1 sec ALWAYS , maybe half of the times.

Gluph of Lesser Energy has a 1 second cast time. So how is it only half the time taking one second to cast?

Quote:

Thats the point of Discordway with an AP caller , its a button smasher and requires almost 0 skill but thats not a reason to say that a skilled melee can DoT and get same efficiency unlike other ppl say ( not you ).

I disagree that it requires 0 skill. I see it as more of a build that is very easy to pick up and play but has alot more depth to it in the hands of an experienced player.

Quote:

Official member

Umm what?

Paul Dawg · Jul 05, 2009, 03:15 PM // 15:15

At least with the hero team from the pvxwiki page, I'm finding that the first hex can't be AP. That's because the target will OFTEN die within the time frame, but not always, especially not if it's a boss, and bosses are, of course, very often the target you need to eliminate first. And if you call AP and your target doesn't croak, you've gimped your whole bar. So I need to hex the target with something else, YMLaD while I'm hexing, and then revert to AP when it becomes clear that the target really is going to go down. And that's pretty energy-intensive.

Where exactly are you guys using this team that you just steamroll everything? You're doing this in HM, right? I mean, yeah, it kills things, but not noticeably faster than other hero teams I've used, and the defense is horrible. (Recovery can't possibly be right on the N/Rt curser, but I haven't had the time to sit down and figure out what would be better.) The team seems to suck especially bad against groups with multiple casters.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 05, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

At least with the hero team from the pvxwiki page, I'm finding that the first hex can't be AP. That's because the target will OFTEN die within the time frame, but not always, especially not if it's a boss, and bosses are, of course, very often the target you need to eliminate first. And if you call AP and your target doesn't croak, you've gimped your whole bar. So I need to hex the target with something else, YMLaD while I'm hexing, and then revert to AP when it becomes clear that the target really is going to go down. And that's pretty energy-intensive.

Apart from death of bosses recharge all of your skills meaning it doesn't matter if AP triggers or not, it might hurt your energy (unless you're a Necromancer or Elementalist) but you have energy management to deal with that, and you should have a backup hex anyway for those situations that you micro from your Necromancer so that you can cast AP near the bosses death instead.

I only really ever find some Elementalist, Monk or Ritualist bosses a problem where I have to change my tactics, most of the time I leave bosses until last so any lack of energy from AP not triggering is rarely a problem by then.

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Where exactly are you guys using this team that you just steamroll everything? You're doing this in HM, right? I mean, yeah, it kills things, but not noticeably faster than other hero teams I've used, and the defense is horrible. (Recovery can't possibly be right on the N/Rt curser, but I haven't had the time to sit down and figure out what would be better.) The team seems to suck especially bad against groups with multiple casters.

I myself have used my own variants of it in FoW on HM, Southern Shiverpeaks for vanquishing, EotN for vanquishing, and for vanquishing in Factions. I also have done my fair share of HM missions with it too across all the campaigns. The most fun one I did was Vizunah Square on HM post Ritualist update with GoE. We mastered it first go in a pretty fast time running dual discordway on synched foreign and local teams, we then did it again and did it even quicker the next run.

Recovery acts as another spirit for Mend Body and Souls requirements so that it removes multiple conditions. Aswell as being a backup it also comes in handy if one of your Necromancers uses Foul Feast. You could probably chop and change it if you want to, there's alot more to the setup than just the PvX build.

Myself I only run one Restoration Necromancer nowadays, I don't run the PvX version I modified mine to suit me and what I run on my caller, so I don't run Recovery either.

I find if you kill stuff quickly enough you don't need so much defense, and don't forget you still have another four party slots to fill.